Define real. We have several POV characters who interact with him.
That he is who he claims to be....Rhaegar and Elia's son
Have noticed that the 'Aegon is real' stand seems to have quite a few supporters on here
What are their arguments in favour of it?
Define real. We have several POV characters who interact with him.
That he is who he claims to be....Rhaegar and Elia's son
it’s been 15 years, there are people who support every theory at this point
I think that currently the strongest arguments is that Varys was right about people conspiring against Aerys in the play and that he had no reason to tell Kevan who he just killed like some James Bond vilain monologue
Its not that popular but the evidence has always been why would Varys lie about it infront of his mute spies and a soon to be dead Kevan. Blackfyre/Brightflame/random Lyseni theories on his identity are still more popular though, Varys being the one to "confirm his identity" and the mummers dragon vision make it far easier to except theirs some trick involved
I think the random Lyseni theory is not that popular actually....blackfyre and brightflame ones, yes
Aegon V was switched with a Blackfyre after Ashford confirmed
I have no unique arguments than the ones that have been stated by others here... Perhaps I am just in favour of this theory because as far as I'm concerned, this is all still a theory with a lot of hints indicating things to be one way or the other and yet most posts and comments i have seen treat the other theory as if it's already cannon, so perhaps I'm just supporting the opposing theory to remind myself that these are all still only theories
The main argument I've seen is "why would Varys lie to a dying Kevan?" My counterargument is that Varys is a good spymaster, and would probably know the safest thing to do is keep up the ruse, even if you think you're alone.
Mfw when the guy who knows someone could always be listening thinks someone may be listening and lies
The thing is, we *know* that Varys lies to Kevan in this conversation, because he claims that he opened the window because Grand Maester Pycelle "befouled himself in dying, and the stink was so abominable" that Varys thought he might choke. But Varys has walked through an actual sewer without problem earlier in the series, and Illyrio claims he used to *live* in one. Varys clearly has no problem with the smell of feces, so there must be some other reason he decided to open the window on such a cold night (likely releasing a raven, but he doesn't want to say that out loud despite being in private). He also lies about Tommen in this conversation. He claims that (f)Aegon has been raised to be humble, whereas Tommen was taught that "kingship is his right," but we *know* this is not an accurate assessment of Tommen's character (who never expected to be king and doesn't seem to be all that interested in being king), and Varys himself has previously described Tommen as being "sweet and tractable." I suspect that Varys is just extremely paranoid/cautious. The best way to ensure you can never be accidentally overheard telling a secret is to just *never* tell the truth until *absolutely necessary*. He knows better than anyone how many secret passages there are throughout the Red Keep and while he can check those passages to ensure nobody's there when he puts his plan into motion, there's no way to be 100% certain that someone hasn't entered since and quietly killed whatever lookouts he posted. Varys simply isn't going to risk all of his meticulous planning simply for the sake of monologuing to a man on death's door.
I think Aegon is the real deal. Broad strokes.
He wanted to scream. He wanted to howl and sob and shake and curl up in a little ball and whimper. He switched the babes, he told himself. He switched the babes to protect the little prince, to keep him away from Lady Melisandre's fires, away from her red god. If she burns Gilly's boy, who will care? No one but Gilly. He was only Craster's whelp, an abomination born of incest, not the son of the King-beyond-the-Wall. He's no good for a hostage, no good for a sacrifice, no good for anything, he doesn't even have a name. (Sam II, AFfC).
substitute Gilly's baby for the Pisswater baby.
There's the eye color argument used to say that Aegon is not Rhaegar's son. Jon Connington thinks that Aegon's eyes, that Rhaegar's eyes were darker than Aegon's. Daenerys has violet eyes, Viserys's eyes were pale lilac and Rhaegar's were indigo. 3 siblings, with the same parents, 3 variance of purple. Aegon's eyes are closer to Egg's eyes in how they are described.
Tyrion puts Aegon 2 years younger than his actual age, but he makes the same mistake with Jon Snow. He thinks he's 12 instead of 14. Tyrion also manages to provoke both Aegon and Jon. I know that moment with Aegon is held against him forever as him being immature, but this moment is a parallel between Jon and him. Both boys got their heads filled with stories. Tyrion pokes holes in those stories and brings them both crashing down to reality. Jon's anger manifests through Ghost, though.
The trip down the Rhoyne is overlooked. The Shy Maid arrives at Ny Sar where the Old Man of the River appears. Ny Sar was Nymeria's city and Aegon would be her descendant down both his parents. Rhoynar blood entered the Targaryen line through Daeron the Good's marriage to Myriah Martell.
Parallel between Aegon and Jaehaerys I, raising their banners at Storm's End. There's also going to be a battle at Storm's End and Storm's End is a place of salt. And because it's a battle, we might end up with a smoke and salt situation.
Four characters have been introduced to the story and three out of four have hidden identities. Wat the singer calls himself the Blue Bard, Jon Connington calls himself Griff and Aegon Targaryen calls himself Young Griff, leaving Daario Naharis as the odd man out. While the cover story for Aegon is that his mother was from Tyrosh, Daario is straight up from Tyrosh. And at least 3 times Dany comments on his eyes that are blue but look purple, wonders if he's a long lost Valyrian, talks about his blood and how he's not the stuff of kings or how he's not fit to buckle a knight's spurs. Seven save me, why couldn't he be better born? For my money, Daario is the Blackfyre. We don't even know what the man's hair color is. Daario was introduced in the story right after we got exposition about the Blackfyres from Catelyn in ASoS.
The peddler of fakes in the story is Littlefinger. Fake Renly, fake Arya, fake daughter. And there's a really neat parallel between the fake daughter (Sansa) and the fake son (Aegon). Both fake fathers talking about washing their hair and donning their father's colors (a wedding cloak for Sansa and the armor in Aegon's case).
There are so many threads on Aegon being real. Varys lying to Kevan doesnt make sense and the counterpart doesn’t hold because he tells his plans in front of the birds and kills Kevan and Pycelle, if he believed someone would tell he wouldn’t have said anything He also recreates Rhaenys and Aegon/Elia’s death in that scene. The Golden Company doesn’t care about the blackfyres and ready to support Dany and Viserys with the backing of Illyrio. Please see this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/mgf7n7/spoilers_extended_the_golden_companys_change_of/
Thanks!
My main arguments are: 1) ADWD Epilogue. Not only bacuse Varys has no reason to lie to Kevan, but because the Epilogue was the perfect place to reveal that Aegon was fake. Varys clearly us proud of his plan, and wants to brag about it. Why he doesn't brag about creating a fake Aegon? 2) It's difficult to prove that Aegon is fake. If someone spills the beams, then Illyrio and Varys are idiot because they trusted this third person with such a secret. 3) fAegon would be a double twist. This character is first introduced as Young Griff. Then Tyrion finds that he's Aegon. If he's fake the scene where Tyrion reveals that he knows the truth lost his meaning. 3) Even if Young Griff is the real Aegon, Dany has still a claim to the Iron Throne. Aegon was disenherited by Aerys. 4) If Aegon is real, then he was actually introduced in the first book. He is not be a "late introduction". 5) In AGOT Varys talks about the death of Rhaenys, but not about the death of Aegon. 6) You can switch a baby, but you can't switch a toddler. They talk but they are not good actors. Martin knows that, because he worked in TV. You can't say to a 2 years old child: "Pretend to be a princess. This is your mom, this is your cat Balerion. If the Lannister hold you as hostage, please follow the script." So they could only switch Aegon, and not Rhaenys. 7) Dragonseeds exist, so it's not impossivle to find a baby who looks Valyrian. 8) Young Griff is going to be a total disaster. He needs to be or Varys's delusions will be valitated. You can engineer the perfect king because humans are not computer. Now, a fake Aegon who is a bad king is not a compelling story, but the trueborn of Elia and Rhaegar turning a bad king is a compelling story. It reminds the reader that ereditary monarchy is a deeply flawed system. These are my arguments but maybe I'm wrong. In the play there isn't a baby-switch.