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r/Naruto · u/Federal_Chart50801 de ago. de 2026, 10:57

Naruto being the reincarnation of Ashura really messed up his character development.

[removed]

125

Comentários

u/Cautious_Fold395211 de ago. de 2026, 11:36
It sucked donkey balls. Only worse thing: Luffy in One Piece being the reincarnation of Joy Boy. At least Goku, Ichigo, Urameshi, Guts, etc. They are just themselves, forging their own destiny.
- u/Equal_Bus_5846131 de ago. de 2026, 11:47
  Ichigo? He's as destined as Naruto and Luffy. He's a Quincy, a Shinigami, a Hollow, and he can also use the Fullbringer. Maybe I'm missing something. Urameshi discovers at the end of the work that he's the descendant of the Demon King.
  - u/Cautious_Fold395201 de ago. de 2026, 11:543 respostas
- u/GrassManV61 de ago. de 2026, 11:53
  
  At least Goku, Ichigo, Urameshi, Guts, etc. They are just themselves, forging their own destiny.
  
  Ichigo, Urameshi,
  
  😭
- u/We-live-in-a-society31 de ago. de 2026, 12:17
  Dragon ball super revealed that Goku grew to be who he is because of a dragon ball wish from Bardock, what are you on about
  - u/Prudent-Box942131 de ago. de 2026, 12:221 resposta
  - u/Cautious_Fold395211 de ago. de 2026, 13:191 resposta
- u/CheekSeer11 de ago. de 2026, 12:47
  Bro just be spoiling other series for no reason. Can't use,tags or anything?
  - u/Cautious_Fold395201 de ago. de 2026, 13:21
- u/[deleted]11 de ago. de 2026, 13:32
  [deleted]
- u/Odd_Introduction_48711 de ago. de 2026, 13:54
  Idk where the hell you get the reincarnation thing from, Luffy has the same devil fruit as Joy Boy, One Piece doesn't have reincarnation, this isn't an isekai, bro
  - u/Cautious_Fold395211 de ago. de 2026, 16:411 resposta
u/scarletarrow0711 de ago. de 2026, 11:38
The bigger problem is that they write Ashura as goofy untalented kid who won or become strong with bonds and hard work yet hashirama and naruto ( yes yes naruto ) are both talented and their power is determination more than bonds
u/Unique-Perception480141 de ago. de 2026, 11:43
What you said about Ashura is not quite true. We see frames of them fighting again later and Ashura has that golden Chakra-Avatar similiar to Kurama. That and the Narration imply that they at least fought one more time, if not even more often. And the new Mode shows that Ashura clearly improved in that time, through hard work, so that he can stand alone against his brother but with the strength others helped him build... like Naruto and Hashirama.
- u/Federal_Chart508011 de ago. de 2026, 13:58
  That Chakra avatar coming in only after the truth seeker orbs were given to him, the chakra avatar was holding the truth seeking orbs in the illustrations. What I’m saying is Ashura couldn’t touch Indra before he got the truth seeker orbs. He almost gave up on catching up or getting better than Indra and accepted that indra would rule and he would be by his side. Until they got their missions. Thanks for responding G.
- u/Federal_Chart508011 de ago. de 2026, 14:16
  Yeah after he got the “responsibility” of carrying Ninshu forward and the truth seeker orbs, that’s what I was trying to say. I understand, thanks for the response
u/Alarmed-Research172811 de ago. de 2026, 12:04
W
u/SodiumBoy721 de ago. de 2026, 12:08
I actually forgot, what is exactly the rivalry between 2 brother, why they fought,indra and ashura
- u/SkyFall37011 de ago. de 2026, 17:43
  Basically Indra got jealous and thought Hagaromo was playing favorites when Ashura got blessed with his powers, even though Indra was far more gifted than of the 2.
u/We-live-in-a-society91 de ago. de 2026, 12:16
I hope to God I never have to meet such Naruto fans in real life. I feel like people who try to have such nuanced takes on the anime have absolutely no idea what manga/anime they are talking about. How are most of the things in your thought-out paragraphs just straight up not true? Are you stupid?
u/Medium-Head-633811 de ago. de 2026, 12:26
Why does Hashirama have hydrogen atom on his forhead? Is he cosplaying as Mr. Manhattan?
u/goliath151521 de ago. de 2026, 12:26
Yeah, I wasn’t a fan of that either. Also wasn’t really a fan of him being related to a powerful Kage.
u/moe_hippo111 de ago. de 2026, 12:26
Their reincarnations are not them being the same people tho. Its simply their chakras reattaching themselves to the next generation. While there are similarities its not pre ordained and set in stone. The fact that Naruto and Sasuke remain friends is proof of that.
- u/FlukeFranklin11 de ago. de 2026, 13:15
  
  Most uchihas have some indra's chakra and and most senju and uzumaki have some of ashura's chakra
  
  This is not true. Only reincarnates have Asura and Indra's chakra.
  - u/Oppopotamus41 de ago. de 2026, 13:241 resposta
u/Nearby-Shower-839231 de ago. de 2026, 12:46
Naruto being the literal 9-tailed fox Jinchuriki from episode 1 didn’t hinder his evolution. In the same way being Ashura’s reincarnation didn’t prevent his evolution, his story ended with Boruto.
u/ShadowkillGaming21 de ago. de 2026, 12:49
You’re going to deep when even the author, the creator Masashi Kishimoto doesn’t. I think you need to read the manga you’ll understand it better
- u/BobJoeBlo11 de ago. de 2026, 14:26
  Worse than too deep. He's digging at the wrong spot and in the wrong direction.
  - u/ShadowkillGaming11 de ago. de 2026, 21:00
u/Icy_Jelly222331 de ago. de 2026, 12:50
You do know that kurama is very well a sentient being that Naruto had to make peace with and befriend right ?
u/[deleted]11 de ago. de 2026, 12:52
[removed]
u/Ylysium11 de ago. de 2026, 12:54
I can’t speak on Hashirama, he was just the ultimate talent for some reason even as a an Ashura reincarnation. But Naruto was genuinely ass for most of his life. Naruto’s determination not to lose, and the people around him teaching him the things they know is how he kept up with Sasuke. Naruto doesn’t even make it to the first Valley of the End fight if Minato doesn’t seal Kurama into him. If Asuma doesn’t teach him wind style he never makes the rasenshurikan, if he never sees Jiraiya he never learns the rasengan. Naruto specifically does have talent, but he needed others to access it. That’s why in their final clash Naruto’s rasengan is made by all the people he’s met in his journey that helped him and made sure he was never alone, while Sasuke’s was made completely alone.
- u/BobJoeBlo11 de ago. de 2026, 14:27
  🙂‍↕️🫡
u/XechsMarquise31 de ago. de 2026, 12:59
Indra inherited Hagoromo’s mind while Ashura inherited his body. Indra’s lineage is known for their eyes, which is an extension of the mind/brain. Ashura’s descendants are known for their massive chakra reserves.
- u/Federal_Chart508011 de ago. de 2026, 14:21
  So I have a question, does Naruto have large chakra reserves because he’s from the Uzumaki clan or because he’s the reincarnation of Ashura? It confuses me because Hagoromo did say that Naruto inherited nothing from his mother. If you know I would like to hear your response please.
- u/BobJoeBlo11 de ago. de 2026, 14:31
  
  Indra’s lineage is known for their eyes, which is an extension of the mind/brain. Ashura’s descendants are known for their massive chakra reserves.
  
  .
  - u/XechsMarquise11 de ago. de 2026, 15:05
u/Fun_Impression_257811 de ago. de 2026, 13:22
Hey come on now, sakura screamed his name to summon him, stop ignoring her use!😡😡
u/MadBase31 de ago. de 2026, 13:41
Naruto fans are never beating the can't read allegations.
- u/Tianyulong11 de ago. de 2026, 13:58
  The link is broken, what did it say? I think it's less we can't read, and more we haven't read the series in years and have forgotten major details haha.
- u/Federal_Chart508011 de ago. de 2026, 14:09
  I didn’t say they are supposed to be replicas of each other. What I meant was that before he got the truth seeking orbs, dude had no fighting chance against Indra. Unlike his two reincarnations against their own rivals.
u/Checksout69211 de ago. de 2026, 13:46
Yup.
u/BobJoeBlo11 de ago. de 2026, 14:18
Naruto being the reincarnation of Ashura really messed up his character development.

It messed up his character development in that Naruto became a full herald of fate, a pure product of destiny and birth predisposition. He walked right into to it, with some caveats that still matched the grand scheme, instead of forcing his way through and against the counter wave.

Madara and Sasuke being Indra’s reincarnations really ties the bow around their natural talent as shinobi. [...]

The Indra part is self-sufficient so I won't really addressed it much.

Your segment about the Ashuras, though, is filled with errors.

However Hashirama & Naruto’s characters reflect nothing to that of Ashura. The only thing that they have which is similar to Ashura is having the ability to bring people together and that’s it.

The Yang side of Reincarnates all the waybto Hashirama reflect/match adult Ashura AFTER his "Sage's Body" awakening, in Bodily Chakra/Powers, talent and skills.

Naruto, unlike all his Reincarnate predecessors, is the only one who is fully like Ashura in term of "Sage's Body" Powers/Talent awakening and overall development, with some very few exceptions.

That's why, beside the benefits of being a jinchuurikj, Naruto did not display great intelligence, varied skills and talent in quite many areas since childhood.

That's why he struggled at the Ninja Academy, in basic ninja skills, in comprehending many things, why some task were taking him longer than others.

That why we see Naruto requiring the invaluable help of Iruka the training of Jiraiya in Part 1,

of Kakashi and Tenzou when training in Part 2,

of Dai Sengama Fukasaku and Gamakichi for training, of the whole Konoha Village+Kyuubi+Minato+Toads against Pain,

of Kushina+Tenzou+Killer Bee for taming Kūrama's power,

of Killer B, Kakashi, Kūrama, Gai, Gaara, Ōnoki, Dodai and the Shinobi Alliance when facing Tobi or Madara,

then Sasuke, the Alliance, Kūrama, the Edo Hokage and Team 7 against Juubito, Juubidara and Kaguya

Because he was the mosf like Ashura, Naruto did not display the Ashura body and talent early on, that's why did not display Uzumaki properties and abilities, why his stamina and chakra reserves were great no because of his Senju lineage but because he was a jinchuuriki.

Naruto's Ashura Body potential began manifesting at Myoubokuzan. It was a consequence Kakashi's Tajuu Kage Bunshin time-compression training method months prior which gained him 10 years of experience in only 9 days. Ashura Prime having awakened his latent talent and powers in his mid 20s, the compressed years gained by 16yo Naruto bring him to the same point. That's why he managed tonreach perfect Sennin Mode in 2 weeks or less and, from then on, progress at fulgurant speed.

Naruto & Hashirama stood alone in their biggest fights. Naruto vs Pain and Sasuke. Hashirama vs Madara. With no one there to aid them.

Dai Sengama Fukasaku and Gamakichi for training, of the whole Konoha Village+Kyuubi+Minato+Toads against Pain,

of Kushina+Tenzou+Killer Bee for taming Kūrama's power,

of Killer B, Kakashi, Kūrama, Gai, Gaara, Ōnoki, Dodai and the Shinobi Alliance when facing Tobi or Madara,

then Sasuke, the Alliance, Kūrama, the Edo Hokage and Team 7 against Juubito, Juubidara and Kaguya

Ashura was never even able to beat Indra in a fight, but people like to claim that “Ashura has always won against Indra”. Well duh if you’re given truth seeking orbs you will be stronger but that’s it.

The results of Indra and Ashura fights after Ashura was selected were not shown in the manga, but it's clear Indra did not win their first engagement and Indra obviously did not manage to kill Ashura for their subsequent bouts, whatever results each of those might have brought.

Gudoudama are powerful.

Ashura had nothing going for him, and did nothing to improve his strength at any capacity in order to keep up with his brother/rival.

That is blatantly false. Chapter 670 and Chapter 671 went at length to explain that Ashura put in tremendous efforts, work and help from others to keep on developping himself because he did not begin with talent and intellect comparable to Indra's. Even if behind, he did not give up nor was he unworking.

He just got Truth Seeking Orbs and called it a day. Naruto & Hashirama were perfect sages.

That's just a lie, at this point.

Ashura kept working and training even if he was behind his older brother. He was in his mid-20s when Rikudou Sennin mentioned that his Bodily Chakra and Talent finally awakened and all the cumulates experience and work finally enabled him to begin rivalling his brother Indra.

It's after more time and development after said Awakening by Ashura that Rikudou Sennin finalky chose a successor in his younger son.

. That is how Ashura received Rikudou Senjutsu which enabled him to get the , that Naruto , with its distinctive multiple Gudoudama (but without Kūrama heads for obvious reasons).

So Ashura end up with all the abilities that his future Senju and Uzumaki descendants will manifest, and then receives Rikudou Senjutsu on top of those.

This means Ashura was not the only one of those 3 to not have Senjutsu. He had a better Senjutsu than Hashirama: Rikudou Senjutsu.

Did Indra also have Senjutsu? Possibly, probably even since he was his father's student, it surely was not Rikudou Senjutsu which is by far the best among all types of Senjutsu, as it even produces Natural Energy from within and allows the fusion of all the elements in whatever order desired, including with the Onmyouton.

Even White Zetsu said Naruto was stronger than Sasuke after his fight against Pain. At no point does Ashura get to that level before his father steps in.

Ashura was closing the gap with his Bodily Talent/Powers awakening. Then Shinsennin stepped in.

So more harm was done to Naruto & Hashirama’s characters when you look at their journeys.

Hashirama did not suffer much from his connections with Ashura because he was already at the pinnacle of shinobi with Madara for their era and were remembered as such by future generations, even in OG Naruto.

Naruto had to struggle like Ashura, without the manifested advantages of his Senju bloodline early on so that he could succeed where his predecessors failed and befriend Kūrama, which then led to his friendshio with the other Bijuu, hence realising the Prophecy.
u/Noktis_Lucis_Caelum01 de ago. de 2026, 15:54
the entire reincarnation plot was awful in my eyes. The story really went down after Nagato
u/QuinnLoveborneAuthor11 de ago. de 2026, 16:07
I just wish there was a separate incarnation between Naruto and Sasuke vs. Hashirama and Madara.
- u/illegallad11 de ago. de 2026, 19:53
  Per black Zetsu there were but they weren’t notable
u/OldPayphone11 de ago. de 2026, 16:22
Another dumb post where the OP truly doesn't understand the story and what was said. Yikes.
u/Jenny_Sais_Quoi11 de ago. de 2026, 16:52
Anticipation. the journey of the spirit, not the character Swit.
u/MoneyAgent461611 de ago. de 2026, 18:55
I also feel like in general it just cheapens the character, all the hardship ls they've overcome and the accomplishments they've made. Madara and Hashirama should have been the last of the reincarnation, at best Naruto and Sasuke are distant descendants who got their powers on their own.
u/Fanficwriter77711 de ago. de 2026, 19:00
Completely agree . It took away their agency . The whole ‘ Talk no Jutsu ‘ and making Naruto some kind of ‘ savior ‘ really ruined it . Neji was completely right . ( pre-shippuden chunin exam speech )