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r/philosophy · u/Altruistic_Hope_255931 de jul. de 2026, 22:42

"We suffer more often in imagination than in reality" — Seneca on phantasia, catastrophizing, and whether rationality can override evolutionary anxiety (Letter 13 to Lucilius)

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Comentários

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u/Altruistic_Hope_25595031 de jul. de 2026, 22:43
Submission Statement In Letter 13 to Lucilius (*"On Groundless Fears"*), Seneca presents a structured critique of anxiety, arguing that external events do not cause suffering directly; rather, suffering arises when we give assent (*synkatathesis*) to negative mental impressions (*phantasia*) before an event occurs. Seneca categorizes our fears into three clinical buckets: things that will never happen, things that happen with less impact than expected, and unavoidable evils where anxiety merely adds unnecessary self-inflicted distress. While Seneca treats this exercise as a purely logical tool to dismantle irrational worry, a modern reading raises a critical question: Can this cognitive framing genuinely override catastrophizing through pure reason as Seneca assumes, or are we attempting to use philosophy against an evolutionary, hardwired threat-detection mechanism that logic can nudge, but never truly eliminate?
- u/Rukun11 de ago. de 2026, 11:04
  I would argue it's more of the second answer you provided.
u/khalid-khkhlhlh931 de jul. de 2026, 22:59

"We suffer more often in imagination than in reality" — Seneca on phantasia, catastrophizing, and whether rationality can override evolutionary anxiety (Letter 13 to Lucilius)

For the Stoics like Seneca and all Romans in general, they have been trying to live their civil virtues without much success, so obviously anxiety has followed amongst them.

Realism recognised reasons of such failures.

Truth is we can never live with rationality as our rational ideals keep on failing.

Plato's rationalism. Aristotle's republicanism. Locke's liberalism. Rousseau's liberalism. Communism. Always ends up in failure.

I know it's disappointing but we all need to accept life as it's because we're simply too emotional to live our ideals.

It's better to work with human irrationality and to compromise on our ideals than to keep on living such fantasies.

So either save what can be saved or let others try actual solutions instead of being some hindrance to the rest of us.
- u/Valleygurl9961 de ago. de 2026, 00:02
  I don’t know why we have to be reductive to rationalism and not see it as a component of consciousness. I’m speaking to some of the examples you presented. Intuition and intellect can work together. It’s just a harder sell in the male dominated world of institutional power. It’s a big conversation though.
  - u/khalid-khkhlhlh01 de ago. de 2026, 00:061 resposta
  - u/Altruistic_Hope_255911 de ago. de 2026, 07:57
u/phasepistol-1131 de jul. de 2026, 23:00
well they didn’t have nuclear weapons, pandemics or global warming in those days
- u/Altruistic_Hope_2559131 de jul. de 2026, 23:05
  Today, however, unfortunately…
- u/ThiccFarter1631 de jul. de 2026, 23:07
  You think pandemics are a recent phenomenon?
- u/platinum_toilet11 de ago. de 2026, 00:02
  They still had hot summers and pandemics existed. Nuclear weapons is used as a deterrent.
- u/JJGrimaldos11 de ago. de 2026, 10:03
  You think you have it worse than a roman on the first century?
u/somuchhaireverywhere1931 de jul. de 2026, 23:30
One of my favorite quotes. I use it all the time to calm myself!
- u/doeraymefa11 de ago. de 2026, 10:42
  we also experience more happiness and joy through imagination, than in reality. funny how humans like to pick and choose how something suits us, in order to appeal to our desires and fears. We cannot see things as they are, thanks to the limitations of our perspective. So we find a way to make our crafted reality benefit us.
  - u/elphabaloves11 de ago. de 2026, 12:45
u/Valleygurl9941 de ago. de 2026, 00:04
As a Daoist informed hermetic thinker, Seneca’s style of thinking has resonated with me deeply. I highly recommend his writings although modern stoic movements to me feel odd and miss the mark
- u/SkyberSec12311 de ago. de 2026, 15:21
  The Ryan Holiday one is pseudo intellect
u/ChaoticJargon71 de ago. de 2026, 01:56
Anxiety is an emotional response to something that isn't well known, or isn't well defined. Reasoning assumes a set of axioms, which then ideally extracts some truth about the world. Anxiety is an emotional outcome when one's ideas about the world interface with one's sense of self. The ideas generate the emotional response because there's an uncertainty which can't easily be resolved. My solution to this is to not assume that reason can somehow overwrite my emotional outcomes. It is first to recognize that emotional outcomes have their own for of intelligence to consider. This unique intelligence helps one manage those particular outcomes. The goal is not to become some clockwork, unable to feel any emotion at all. Instead, it's to examine the ideas that generate the emotions. Then determine why one has decided to hold onto a set of ideas which generate a specific emotional outcome. Maybe not all emotional outcomes are based on ideas alone, but many are. Exploring them can give one a reason to consider if those outcomes are worthwhile. Emotional intelligence is just dealing with the outcomes themselves, in order to fully live. It's just another form of understanding. One that requires the idea of the heart. Then there's spiritual intelligence, which is the artful way in which one decides to live their life. Their practice of sharing their soul with others. Which does require some level of expression.
- u/Altruistic_Hope_255911 de ago. de 2026, 07:54
  maybe we can know what generates anxiety, unfortunate subconscious, with rationality we can reach a certain point of the self, we need a friendly hand (psychologists) for a deep discernment and to try to make sense of our shadows that haunt us.
- u/WouldBSomething11 de ago. de 2026, 13:30
  
  Anxiety is an emotional response to something that isn't well known,
  
  If I am anxious about going to work every day because I have bullying colleagues and a toxic boss, that is well known. If I am anxious about undergoing chemotherapy for the sixth time, that too is well known. If I am anxious about having to live in a neighbourhood that has a disproportionality high crime rate, again this is well known.
  
  Anxiety may be generalised and diffuse - the kind that you build your argument on. But not necessarily; anxiety can be the result of some localised concrete situation that is well understood.
  - u/ChaoticJargon11 de ago. de 2026, 15:201 resposta
  - u/SkyberSec12311 de ago. de 2026, 15:21
u/youmaynotknowme21 de ago. de 2026, 04:34
Tell that to the Palestinians
- u/platinum_toilet11 de ago. de 2026, 08:18
  They should try to fight against Hamas.
  - u/SUPERSAPE11 de ago. de 2026, 11:07
u/Conscious_Reason_51011 de ago. de 2026, 04:52
We suffer our emotions. We imagine there is reason.
u/[deleted]11 de ago. de 2026, 11:10
[removed]
u/Potential-Fish84511 de ago. de 2026, 17:31
"We suffer more in imagination than in reality." What causes us to suffer in a world whose order is determined by us alone?