Considering he was too scared to even attack, I doubt part 1 Kakashi could do anything to Oro.
Yeah, when you can get one-tapped, it doesn't really matter if you're a small ant or a slightly bigger ant.
Kurenai is a skilled Jonin and is one of the best genjutsu users from the leaf village. During the fight with Itachi in OG when she used genjutsu on him he immediately reflected it upon her. She was defeated instantly. It couldn't be helped as the power gap between them was huge.
Kakashi was terrified on confronting Orochimaru during the Chunin Exams. If they had fought here would he have got instant diffed like Kurenai or he would have been able to handle Oro for sometime?
Ofc Kakashi is a lot weaker than Orochimaru here so he would lose obviously but my question is does he perform better against him when compared to Kurenai's performance against Itachi?
Considering he was too scared to even attack, I doubt part 1 Kakashi could do anything to Oro.
Yeah, when you can get one-tapped, it doesn't really matter if you're a small ant or a slightly bigger ant.
The power scale is always weird in Naruto and even more so in part 1. Kakashi being one of the strongest jonin and still getting no diffed here and then the Hokage actually doing quite well implies that there is a giant chasm of power difference between Hiruzen and Kakashi. Unless we assume that Oro was just messing around in the fight with Hiruzen.
It's more that Hiruzen was still wearing the "god of shinobi" badge of honor even in his elderly years
There is a giant difference between an elite jounin level fighter and someone who is high kage level like Orochimaru
Oro was also very very careful with fighting hiruzen given his ridiculous knowledge. I mean he did manage to seal his arms in his old age while fighting his 2 ols nentors… dude was losing physically and psychologically and still did a ton of damage. Healthy hiruzen wouldve wrecked oro probably
I was also under the impression that hiruzen wasnt even giving 100% for most of the oro fight due to unresolved personal issues with raising his fists against a former student. He really only seems to bolster his willpower and finally shoot to kill once he busts out the reaper death seal.
Orochimaru did mess around by standing still and watching the Hokage fight and not attacking neither summoning Snakes (even if not Manda). And Kakashi is able to stand up to Oro by mere ninjutsu spamming up to the moment when Oro stops wanting to be amused and takes the kids gloves out. Plus, one of Orochimaru's strengths is his "predator gaze"/"killing intent" which can paralyzed enemies, like he did with Sasuke and like Zabuza had. It was something that was pretty common in Part 1 but not so much in part 2 (examples being Edo Tobirama and Hashirama)
Hiruzen has seen some shit in his days. Outside of Edo Tensei and some fked up forbidden jutsu there’s probably not much in Oro’s arsenal that surprises him. Kakashi never fought Orochimaru, he’s going off of his reputation.
It’s rock paper scissors. Just because one person can beat someone, doesn’t mean shit against the next person. Styles make fights
I mean Oro absolutely was.
The sannin were supposed to be the pinnacle of power in Part 1. That was retconed in Shippuden.
what's a diffed
Beaten with no difficulty
No diff, high diff, neg diff, mid diff, low diff all refers to degreeing levels of difficulty in a fight. Insta diffed is probably a combo of no diffed and insta- blitzed/lost i guess
After seeing what kind of literal monster Orochimaru is during the Sauske vs Itachi, he was right to back down. The difference in their battle experience is all too great as well.
Hard to say. I think the vibe is leaning towards an instant diff. But thinking about it, Kakashi was giving Itachi a bit of a fight before the tsukuyomi. Itachi didn’t instantly win their fight. And itachi is stronger than Orochimaru. So we could use that to say Orochimaru would not instantly defeat Kakashi either. That said, matchups are a thing. Character A could be better suited to fighting another Character B, and perform better against them even if Character B is stronger than Character C.
Kishi has always been too keen to hype characters to quickly show them the power level. With Oro he shows it here by Kakashi being no diffed. Then when he wants to show how powerful Itachi he no diffs Oro and we are told Itachi was head of Anbu at 13. It’s quite silly and poor writing in my opinion because it comes off as a 12 year old writing “and ge was EVEN MORE powerul and was hokage level while still in diapers” but it is what it is.
Is it not plausible to say that Itachi was stronger than Oro only after Hiruzen sealed his arms in hell? Think Itachi could handle Hokage reanimations or any of Oro's other jutsu? Asking objectively and honestly. I don't think I know the answer.
Kurenai was just unlucky to face a genjutsu monster thats it I think kakashi may do some good damage but heck oro still one of the legendary sannin
I don’t think it’s as harsh as Itachi v Kurenai. Kakashi is stronger than Kurenai and Orochimaru is weaker than Itachi, so it’s a closer match. Kakashi still loses easily though
It depends on his mental state, if he is scared to fight he might get instant no diffed but when he activated his chidori he was ready for a fight and in that case he might cut Orochimaru or hurt him.
Orochimaru might not need to take his hands out of his pockets. Maybe 1
Kakashi is one of the strongest in the village and can even face off against top tier jonin. He is a strategist, skilled at combat and has a wide range of abilities. He is getting beat into the ground. At this point in the story the power scaling is alot lower. Kakashi has lost the initiative and can't rely on his typical fighting style with clones and assassination. To make it worse he also had to protect an unconscious Sasuke who was the real target. Orchimaru at this point is the most powerful ninja we know about and he is far stronger than zabuza. Kakashi has no shot against orchimaru. His only hope at this point is to go as explosively as he can, to make as much noise as possible. Not to win or overwhelm, but to sound the alarm. I think Kakashi is skilled enough to survive long enough to do that. However this scene is meant to scale orchimaru since we saw Kakashi fight multiple times now.
It's time to stop the slander: Kurenai had Itachi exactly where she wanted to and people are just kink shaming her
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I don't think so. He definitely loses here but not so easily.
He doesn't get instant diffed but he does get low diffed. Part 1 Kakashi has garbage stamina and has no way to put orochimaru down since chidori wont do anything against Orochimaru's snake style substitution where he literally vomits himself out. Kakashi also gets utterly stomped if Orochimaru uses Manda or accesses his 8 headed snake hydra form.
“Does Kakashi get instant diffed here like Kurenai and Kakashi?” Better. Don’t forget he also got humiliated that day. Damn Tobirama juniors in this subreddit…
Itachi is much stronger than oro and kurenai is much weaker than kakashi. More like mid diff.
Worst than Kurenai
Not sure if I’d say no diffed, but he’s highly outclassed for sure. Part 1 Kakashi barely scrapes the edge of Kage (strength, not title) tier fighters as an Elite Jonin. While not stated, I’d imagine Kakashi spent the years between leaving ANBU and the start of Part 1 as kinda aimless and depressed. I say this because there’s obviously a stark difference between Part 1 and 2 Kakashi which I’ve always believed is due to Kakashi basically finding motivation again. On the topic of why he seemingly did better against Itachi, who basically no diffed Orochimaru, there are a few things to consider. Kakashi knew Itachi in ANBU, he knows and probably taught Itachi many of his tricks except the Mangekyou (which he gets beat by). Likewise, Hiruzen knows Orochimaru very well, The big trick Orochimaru uses to surprise Hiruzen is Edo Tensei, which Hiruzen counters with his own surprise in the Shinigami Seal (Orochimaru probably did know about, but didn’t expect it to be used). On the flip side, Kakashi and Orochimaru don’t know each other well and neither did Itachi and Orochimaru. Itachi exploited this twice against Orochimaru once using the high level of Genjutsu allowed by the Mangekyou (not Tsukiyomi, we know from Obito, Madara, and Sasuke that just generic genjutsu from the Magekyou can be extremely powerful -> Obito brainwashed a Mizukage). The second time, he exploited his Susanno and the Totska blade. Orochimaru knew about the blade, but he had no way of knowing his snake form would basically be outclassed by the Susanno. Back to Kakashi vs Orochimaru and it’s a similar loss of information that widens present strength gaps even further. Kakashi only has bingo book and report information to gauge Orochimaru on, meanwhile Orochimaru has had his own agents and ROOT/Danzo feeding him info. He likely knows everything Kakashi can do and knows how to counter it. That in addition to the general strength gap is just impossible for Kakashi (who in Part 1 is very, 1 shot 1 kill assassin style) basically up shit creek without a paddle. TLDR: there’s explanations that make sense for all this. Kishimoto probably didn’t think of them lol.
Kakashi is stronger than tobi who beats itachi, who easy diffs orochimaru Oro is lucky kakashi didn't want to fight here
Kurenai lost cos she was hard-countered Kakashi puts up a fight but ultimately loses... and he isn't going to push Orochimaru very hard either
the only reason it won’t be instant is because diddymaru likes to toy with his victims a bit
I don't think he'll get instant diff but I do think a part of him diffed is because he kinda hai ptsd from oro since he was a child if you recall kakashi anbu arc in the fillers. That fear might hold him back against oro
Its kinda stupid that Kakashi does not use genjutsu more often...
Not neg diffed but Oro is in another tier entirely , so pointless trying to hurt him.
I think its implied that kakashi fares the same. This means there is a big difference in power between the 3rd hokage and even the strongest join (except for the sanin, who are of similar strength to eachother) This creates a weird problem later in the story because hiruzen doesn't seem like he was the strongest of the 5 when we meet the other hokage. I think the same thing that explains how hiruzen is stronger than them as stated also explains the gap between orochimaru and the others. In part 1 strength is measured against humans. All of the abilities that hiruzen and kakashi sho seem to be aimed at fighting humans. That makes sense because that's what they did. In part two, the kage are meant to fight monsters. That makes sense because that is also what they did there. A giant disintegration ray doesn't seem very Shinobu like, neither does lightning armor. Orochimaru is the only monster in part 1. Kakashi and the others wouldn't do well because they aren't meant to fight him. The only people meant to fight him are hiruzen and the sanin. Hiruzen still makes sense as one of the strongest because he attacks the human part of other kage. None of them could handle the bringer of darkness genjutsu
Kurenai wasn't defeated. She broke out of the genjutsu and took a direct kick from Itachi. Then Kakashi saved her from a clone of Itachi ( or sum I don't remember exactly ). And idk why we are trying to gouge anything with Orochimaru because Itachi fcked up Kakashi instantly as well.
Not even Itachi who is >> Orochimaru could neg diff/instant diff Part 1 Kakashi, so clearly Orochimaru isn't going to, even if he is clearly going to win
What is instant diffed? Instant is not a quality like no, low, mid, high. If you mean he gets beat with no difficulty then its no diffed, not Instant diffed.
I mean bro literally aura genjutsu’d Kakashi into feeling like if he moved even an inch he’d die
hiruzen was the strongest Ninja of all time dduring the first part of naruto, then kishi realized that making bushins of shurikens maybe isnt kage lvl compared to the megazords and nukes. But yeah, during the first part, kakashi would get destroyed by orochimaru, and orochimaru would also lose to hiruzen if he was a few years younger. 3rd hokage was the god of shinobi, he was actually the strongest of all, he did 1v2 the first and second hokage, then ofc they retcon saying they werent in their strongest form.. T\_T. But yeah in a the first naruto where kishi still didnt thought about the super far distant future, the 3rd hokage was the strongest and he lost to orochimaru so kakashi woulddnt even be able to move.
Kakashi would've been no-diffed here if he actually tried to fight Orochimaru. Kakashi himself literally says as such.
Kakashi is getting destroyed... Part 1 has a massive gap of power between even high jonins ansld hokages...which makes no sense, but that's how it stands.. Also, Gai is stronger than Kakashi in part 1. He releases 6 gates at the beginning of shippuden...He could probably release 4-5 in part 1..
No because he forgot the golden rule here. Orochimaru wouldn't risk getting hurt here so he can take advantage of whatever power gap they have and use the situation to even up the gap.
Yes
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For someone to grow old enough to survive the shinobi wars in Naruto , You don’t Give Enough Credit to Hiruzen.